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Welcome to the 2nd Annual Nevada Knockout!

Are you ready?

Welcome Educators!

Welcome to the new Nevada Knockout web page! Here you’ll be able to download brackets, easily find the rules, access lesson plans, learn about this year’s contenders, and most importantly read about who wins!

This year’s battles will be released on Monday’s just like last year. You will be able to access battle information and the PowerPoints here, and we will be sending out emails again to everyone who signs up to participate on Sundays. If you haven’t signed up to participate yet, please do so here!

Dates battles will be released:

  • Week 1 and Wild Card: 9/30/2019
  • Week 2: 10/7/2019
  • Week 3: 10/14/2019
  • Week 4: 10/21/2019
  • Week 5: 10/28/2019
  • Week 6: 11/4/2019
  • Week 7: 11/12/2019 *This is a Tuesday because of Veteran’s Day*
  • CHAMPIONSHIP: 11/18/2019

Follow the links below or the links in the menu to check out the content on the site:

  • If you’re new head here to learn all about how to play!
  • To learn about this year’s contenders head here!
  • To check out this year’s brackets and where to send them in, head here!
  • Check out lesson plans here!

If you still have questions or comments please send them to Julie Watson at jwatson@ndow.org.

Week 7 Battle Results!

FINAL FOUR

Ringtail vs. Mtn. Lion

Location: Ash Meadows 

Recovering from wounds, the mountain lion is resting peacefully near some softly flowing stream at Ash Meadows. With a scratched eye and a pierced lip from previous encounters, the mountain lion grooms their face and paws with care. The smell of the skunk’s spray is gradually fading. The mountain lion suddenly smells food nearby – trash and old food from a picnic left behind by some people visiting the picnic area. The trash is not what’s on the mountain lion’s mind, it’s the ringtail that has found their way to the trash and is scrounging around for food. The mountain lion quietly sneaks down toward the picnic area and stalks its prey. A quick pounce and the mountain lion succeeds! The ringtail was too busy searching for unhealthy food that people left behind, they didn’t hear the breathing of the mountain lion behind them. Remember to pick up your trash when you visit nature areas and picnic areas!

Result: Mountain Lion advances!


Roadrunner vs. Feral Cat

Location: Beatty, NV

After a restful sleep under a tree in a nearby neighborhood, the feral cat wakes up from the smell of an early riser – a kangaroo rat. The feral cat quickly jumps up to attention, hoping for an easy breakfast. The cat is so focused on the movements of the kangaroo Rat that they fail to notice a roadrunner, hiding behind a nearby shrub, stalking the same kangaroo Rat. Even with an injured wing the roadrunner leaps forward simultaneously scaring the feral cat away into hiding and successfully catching the kangaroo rat for its first meal of the day. The feral cat goes hungry and stays hidden for quite some time. 

Result: Roadrunner advances!

Week 6 Round 3 Results

Defending Champs and Exclusive Elusives – Round 3

Golden Eagle vs. Mountain Lion

Location: Toiyabe Mountains, Central Nevada

Three days after its badger encounter, the mountain lion is sore and nursing the wound to its eye. Unable to see as clearly, its hungry again and in need of an easier meal when it sees the golden eagle on the ground.

After a large snack and the wound to its wing from the osprey battle, the golden eagle is pretty much grounded but not completely immobile. It’s able to get around by short, low bursts of flight and hops along the ground.  

The mountain lion starts moving in. Sneaking behind some Sagebrush and low crawling in the open areas.  The golden eagle sees movement and soon sees the mountain lion nearby. The eagle tries to take flight, but can only make it about 20 feet before needing to touch ground again.  The mountain lion moves closer with each flight attempt the golden eagle makes. As the golden eagle makes another try, the mountain lion pounces and catches the golden eagle just feet from the ground.  Caught by a single leg, twisting and turning with all its strength, the golden eagle pecks and claws at the mountain lion’s face, tearing the lion’s ear with its talon. The mountain lion’s large teeth are holding tight as the lion brings the bird to the ground. The lion holds the eagle down with its front claws and prepares for the final bite.  Suddenly, the mountain lion and the golden eagle are startled when they hear a strange noise. Their battle has been on a two track road in the Toiyabe Mountains and a truck is quickly approaching. The mountain lion tries to carry the golden eagle away, but drops the bird and decides to continue out of the path of humans. The golden eagle is critically wounded and crawls to shelter under a sagebrush.
Result: Mountain lion advances!

Injury:  Recovering from an injured eye, the mountain lion receives a pierced lip and torn ear from the talon of the golden eagle. 

Phainopepla vs. Ringtail

Location: Clark County Wetlands Park

Near the Cottonwood Grove at the Clark County Wetlands Park, the ringtail is eating beetles, caterpillars, and lizards next to the stream and near some cottontails. It is starting to get light though, and the sun is getting ready to rise. The phainopepla wakes from its slumber and starts to make its way to the stream where beetles and caterpillars are known to be in abundance. Being so early in the morning, the phainopepla fails to see the ringtail because their fur camouflages against the dense brush. As soon as the phainopepla lands to start a morning of feeding on caterpillars and beetles, the ringtail startles the bird simply by reaching for lizard nearby. Frightened from a predator, the phainopepla retreats and is forced to feed somewhere else in a safer place – perhaps high up in a Honey Mesquite Tree on Mistletoe berries.

Result: Ringtail advances!

Here’s your Week 6 completed bracket!

Week 5 Round 3 Battle Results!

City Slicker Round 3

Roadrunner vs. Raccoon

Location: Colorado River, Laughlin, Southern Nevada

The raccoon decides some rest and relaxation along the river is probably for the best to recover from its injury. The roadrunner has made its way to the Colorado as well but is on a mission for another meal. As the one-eyed raccoon fumbles along the riverbank, it spies a plump lizard sunning itself on a rock. The raccoon, being an opportunistic feeder, considers making a grab for the lizard. Suddenly, the roadrunner speeds past the raccoon and snaps up the lizard, leaving the raccoon to find another meal.

Result: Roadrunner Advances! 


Not From ‘Round Here Round 3

Feral Cat vs. European Starling

Location: Great Basin National Park

The feral cat wants to get away from water for awhile and heads across the state. Our starling has also made its way to Great Basin National Park to try and heal its aching foot. The cat heads into a campground to see if it can grab any of the small rodents or birds taking advantage of some human’s crumbs. The starling is among the birds also trying to take advantage of human’s crumbs and the insects those crumbs will attract. The starling is being extra careful and ginger with its injured foot. The cat sits in the sagebrush and waits. It’s not seeing anything of interest. The starling decides to head near the picnic table because they don’t see any other birds or potential threats. The starling doesn’t see much to eat, but it does see an ant hill. The bird decides it is a safe spot to do some ‘anting’. The starling picks up ants in its beak and starts rubbing them under its wings. A weird yet fairly common behavior. The starling concentrating on ‘anting’ doesn’t see the cat slowly inching closer. The cat quickly darts and pounces. The starling can’t jump to flight because of its foot. The cat runs off with the starling in its mouth.

Result: Feral Cat Advances

Here’s your Week 5 complete bracket!

Week 4 Round 2 Battle Results!

Defending Champs and Exclusive Elusives

Defending Champs Round – 2

Golden Eagle vs. Osprey

Location: Pyramid Lake, Northwest Nevada

The osprey is on the ground starting to eat a small trout it fished out of Pyramid Lake.  A dog comes running down the beach and causes the osprey to temporarily leave the area, leaving its catch on the sand.  Looking for its own meal, the golden eagle sees the abandoned fish and swoops in for a bite. With the dog out of the area, the osprey returns to find the golden eagle on its meal and begins to dive at the golden eagle.  The golden eagle defends the snack and fights back. They both peck and claw at each other in the air and on the ground. The osprey latches on to the golden eagle’s wing and feathers are lost. The osprey dives in on the golden eagle again, only to catch a talon in its chest when the golden eagle rolls in mid air.  The osprey retreats from the battle with an open wound in his chest.   

Result: Golden eagle Advances!Injury:  Golden eagle has talon damage to its wing and loses some feathers

Mountain Lion vs. American Badger

Location: Jarbidge Wilderness, Northeastern Nevada

Nursing the wounds from the quills, the badger isn’t moving as quickly as normal.  The badgers is slowly making progress on a new den deep in the Jarbidge Wilderness when the stinky skunk sprayed mountain lion moves in for its next meal.  The mountain lion watches the badger closely, to time its next move with precision. Even with the smell, the badger doesn’t know the mountain lion is near by and continues to dig.  With the badger’s head in the burrow, the mountain lion makes its move. Even wounded, the badger puts up a fight. Using its front paws and teeth, the mountain lion clutches onto the badger from behind.  Twisting and biting, the badger turns around and scratches the lion across the face, catching the lion in the eye. The mountain lion latches on once again. The damage from the quills is too much and the badger can not maintain a good fight and realizes its defeat.  

Result: Mountain lion out fights the badger!

Injury:  Mountain lion recovers from skunk spray but has badger scratches across his face and right eye.


Exclusive Elusives Round – 2

Columbia Spotted Frog vs. Phainopepla

Location: Key Pittman Wildlife Management Area  

After feeding on Mistletoe berries for some time, the phainopepla sits high up in a tree and rests. Meanwhile, a columbia spotted frog is busy eating insects and arachnids underneath some shade from a tree. Noticing all the commotion and movement on the water from above, the phainopepla quickly flies down to enjoy the insects including beetles and caterpillars form the leaves of the vegetation around the water. With all this disturbance in the feeding area, the columbia spotted frog retreats to a denser cover and eventually flees to another tree because of the phainopepla’s voracious eating.  

Result: Phainopepla advances!

Ringtail vs. Gambel’s Quail

Location: Lake Mead National Recreation Area

At the end of a long day of scratching and foraging seed, the Gambel’s quail moves to their nest to rest for the night under some thick brush. This is the signal for the ringtail and other nocturnal wildlife to come out to hunt and feed. As the ringtail gets close to the quail’s nesting ground, the quail is fast asleep. The ringtail, with an excellent sense of smell, sneaks up on the quail and pounces in attack with success! The ringtail has a meal for the night. 

Result: Ringtail advances!

Here’s what the correct bracket looks like after Week 4!

Week 3 Round 2 Battle Results!

City Slickers and Not From ‘Round Here

City Slickers Round – 2

Roadrunner vs. Coyote

Location: Pittmans Wash, Las Vegas, Southern Nevada

The matchup we’ve all been waiting for!

Still slow moving from its encounter with the skunk, the coyote strolls along the wash looking for an easy meal. The roadrunner, hiding behind a bush is finishing up a tasty lizard. Out of the corner of its eye, the coyote sees a blur of movement. The coyote quickly turns its head, but then the roadrunner zips past too quickly for the coyote to react. The roadrunner makes another dizzying pass by the coyote, and again the coyote is barely able to react in time. The coyote decides with its blurred vision, it’s no match for the speedy roadrunner and retreats to find a slower meal.

Result: Roadrunner Advances! 

Raven vs. Raccoon

Location: Virginia Lake Park, Reno, Northern Nevada

Always looking for food, the common raven finds itself on the ground searching through trash for an easy meal. Suddenly, the raccoon appears coming up from a storm drain! Raccoons use storm drains in cities to get around and to look for food. Today the storm drain does not provide any tasty treats, and the raccoon turns its attention to the raven. The raven doesn’t notice until it’s too late, and the raccoon grabs the bird from behind! Quickly running off with its newfound meal.

Result: Raccoon advances!


Not From ‘Round Here Round – 2

Rock Pigeon vs. European Starling

Location: Lahontan State Recreation Area

Our rock pigeon has headed north to scavenge on leftovers at a picnic area. The pigeon spies a family getting ready to enjoy a nice meal. It waddles towards their picnic table. The starling has been watching the picnic area from a tree. The starling is only half interested in the picnic area, until it sees someone drop a piece of food. The starling swoops down to grab it, but the rock pigeon has made its way over to the morsel around the same time. The two birds collide! The starling somehow comes out of the fray with what looks like a small piece of a hotdog bun. The starling’s foot is hurt and it takes one little limp and flies off victorious!

Result: Starling advances!

Injury: The Starling’s foot is injured

Kokanee Salmon vs. Feral Cat

Location: Nevada Beach

Our kokanee salmon has continued its tour around Lake Tahoe and is now at Nevada Beach, where our cat has also wandered. The feral cat is feeling quite full from the brook trout earlier, but decides to head towards the water for the heck of it. The salmon has had its fill of excitement after the gecko debacle and decides to hang out near a dock. The cat sees the dock and decides it might have a good chance at some of the birds flitting around there. The salmon is swimming casually under the dock when something shiny above catches its eye. It swims out from under the dock and heads towards the surface to investigate. Meanwhile, the cat has been staring over the side of the dock the entire time. Sitting in full sun the small silver bell on the cat’s collar shimmers. The cat spies the shimmery blue-silver color of the non-breeding salmon, and shoots its paw into the water hoping for the same luck as last time. This time the salmon is bigger and harder to grab. The cat tries desperately to dig its claws into the fish. After, a couple of intense seconds of struggle between the cat and the salmon, the salmon manages to wriggle free. However, the salmon has been mortally wounded by the cat’s claws.

Result: Feral Cat Advances

Here’s what your bracket would look like after Week 3!

Week 2 Round 1 Battle Results!

Defending Champs and Exclusive Elusives

Defending Champs – Round 1

American Beaver vs. Golden Eagle

Location: East Humboldt’s, Angel Creek, Northeastern Nevada

Angel Creek is the beaver’s paradise.  Plenty of trees, running water, and some clear open spaces with tall grass.  The golden eagle is soaring the skies keeping watch for its next meal. Below, the eagle spots a larger rodent waddling through some tall grass as dusk approaches.  The beaver is too far from his lodge and water to quickly avoid the golden eagle. The beaver cowers in the grass as the golden eagle swoops in. The eagle misses. The beaver waddles faster to get closer to safety.  Swooosh! The golden eagle makes another attempt, but this time, doesn’t miss. Its talons have dug into the sides of the beaver, lifting him off the ground. Several yards from the ground, but closer to his lodge and water, the beaver’s intense wiggling combined with its weight, causes the golden eagle to release the beaver.  

With a thud and some battle wounds, the beaver retreats to water. Due to the rule of retreat, the eagle moves on.

Result: Golden eagle advances!

Gila Monster vs. Osprey

Location: Lake Mojave, Southern Nevada

Lucky enough to live near a constant source of water, the gila monster slowly makes its way down to the shore of Lake Mojave for a drink.  Overhead, an osprey spots a large bass in the water not far from the gila monster. While diving in for its fish dinner, the osprey swoops in close to the gila monster.  The gila monster snaps at the osprey, but misses. The Osprey continues to hunt for its fish while the gila monster retreats to its burrow away from the shore line, still thirsty.  

Result: Osprey advances!

Mountain Lion vs. Spotted Skunk

Location: Clover Mountain, Southeastern Nevada

It’s almost sunset and the spotted skunk gets busy collecting insects and berries for the night.  The skunk smells something funny, but with his poor eyesight, it may be too late when it realizes it has just wandered very close to the cache of our mountain lion contender.  A cache that the mountain lion has come back to snack on. Protecting its food, the mountain lion gives a low growl. Scared, the spotted skunk stands on it front legs and warns the mountain lion with a hiss.  The mountain lion pounces on the spotted skunk but not before the skunk can drop to all fours and spray. The spotted skunk is left with mortal wounds when the mountain lion lets him go.

Result: Mountain lion moves on!

Injury:  Mountain lion gets sprayed by skunk

American Badger vs. American Porcupine

Location: Diamond Valley, Eureka Nevada

It’s almost sunrise in Diamond Valley just outside of Eureka, Nevada and our porcupine has climbed into a tall quaking aspen tree for one of its favorite snacks.  Being as heavy as the porcupine can be, those upper limbs of the tree are not strong enough to hold it, and the porcupine falls to the ground. The porcupine lands just feet from our badger contender.  The badger is startled but this only makes our badger mad and it charges the porcupine. The porcupine turns and swipes its tail at the badger landing some quills in the badger’s shoulder. The badger charges again and snaps at the porcupine.  The porcupine knows the badger is not any mammal to mess with and retreats. Leaving the badger to do what badgers do.

Result: American badger wins!

Injury:  Badger moves on with quills in his shoulder.


Exclusive ElusivesRound 1

Columbia Spotted Frog vs. Devils Hole Pupfish

Location: Devils Hole in Ash Meadows, NV

The Columbia spotted frog makes their way to the pooled waters of Devils Hole, early in the morning. The warmer temperatures of Devils Hole attracts insects which the frog is eagerly devouring in preparation to lay eggs. Since the Devils Hole pupfish is not an aggressive fish, the shadow and movement from the Columbia spotted frog who is feeding above intimidates the fish who then retreats for the entire day. The Devils Hole pupfish stays hidden below where it cannot be seen but subsequently is unable to eat the algae that grows alongside the limestone ledge and goes hungry today. 

Result: Columbia spotted frog advances!

Phainopepla vs. Moapa Dace

Location: Moapa Valley National Wildlife Refuge 

While foraging for mistletoe berries near Warm Springs and the Moapa Valley National Wildlife Refuge, a phainopepla accidently drops several berries and seeds into the water where a moapa dace is eating insects. Although the moapa dace eats just 3 seeds on accident, mistakenly thinking they are insects on the water’s surface, the fish feels ill for a few hours and retreats to cover underneath some rocks and low vegetation. 

Result: Phainopepla advances!

Ringtail vs. Desert Shrew

Location: Overton Wildlife Management Area 

Both being nocturnal, the ringtail and the desert shrew are out hunting at night, along Honey Bee Pond at Overton Wildlife Management Area. While the desert shrew relies on echolocation to navigate, the ringtail sees and hears the shrew from high up in a tree. The ringtail swiftly climbs down the tree and rushes to snatch the desert shrew for a midnight meal. 

Result: Ringtail advances!

Rubber Boa vs. Gambel’s Quail

Location: Humboldt-Toiyabe National Forest 

While the Gambel’s quail is making its nest underneath some low shrubs, the rubber boa is hunting in and around the same brush for rodent burrows. As the snake approaches the quail’s nest, the quail chirps and squawks loudly to protect its nest. Startled, the snake moves to another bush to hunt for prey. 

Result: Gambel’s quail advances!

Here’s what the bracket looks like now! If you got all of them correct you would have 33 points!

Week 1 Round 1 Battle Results!

WILD CARD, City Slickers, and Not From ‘Round Here

Wild Card

Roadrunner vs. Western Diamondback Rattlesnake

Location: Mojave Desert, Southern Nevada

The roadrunner is on the lookout for some invertebrates as a tasty treat. It’s using its keen eyesight to survey the desert for scorpions, centipedes, and spiders. Suddenly the western diamondback slithers out from the brush, interrupting the roadrunner’s search. The roadrunner sees an opportunity, and quickly head towards the snake. It knows the snake is dangerous, but also would be a great meal. The roadrunner quickly snags the snake by the head and smashes it on a rock repeatedly. High risk equals high rewards as the roadrunner enjoys its rattlesnake meal.

Result: Roadrunner Advances! 


City SlickersRound 1

Roadrunner vs. House Finch

Location: A Nevadan’s Backyard 

The house finch is hopping through the grass, happily picking up seeds that have fallen from a backyard bird feeder. Nearby, lurking in the bushes is a roadrunner, not interested in the seeds, only in the bird eating them. Using its long legs for speed, the roadrunner races towards the bird before the finch can react. The roadrunner captures the birds and using its smash and bash technique, incapacitates the finch for a tasty meal. 

Result: Roadrunner Advances! 

Striped Skunk vs. Coyote

Location: UNR Farms, Reno, Northern Nevada 

After many unsuccessful attempts to capture a marmot, a very hungry coyote encounters a skunk in the middle of the field. The skunk, feeling threatened, began to stamp its feet to warn the coyote it was coming too close. The coyote, too hungry to heed the warning, pounces right as the skunks lifts its tail and spray its oily musk right in the coyote’s face. The coyote’s vision is very blurry but it still managed to clutch the skunk in its jaws. A meal well worth a bit of pain.  

Injuries: Coyote is temporarily wounded by skunk spray. 

Result: Coyote Advances! 

Black-billed Magpie vs. Raccoon

Location: Oxbow NSA, Reno, Northern Nevada 

In an attempt to find cover from another predator, the black-billed magpie found itself in a cottonwood tree. The raccoon was sleeping in a large hole within the cottonwood tree but was woken up by the magpie’s calls. Seeing a chance for a potentially easy meal, the raccoon attacked the magpie. To save itself, the magpie pecked at the raccoon’s eyes and was successful in blinding one. Though the raccoon was partially blinded, it was still able to use its dexterous hands, piercing claws and sharp teeth to kill the magpie, leaving the raccoon a tasty meal.

Injuries: Raccoon loses sight in one eye. 

Result: Raccoon advances!

Largemouth Bass vs. Raven

Location: Lake Mead Recreation Area, Southern Nevada

In search of water, the raven has made it down to Lake Mead in Las Vegas. It’s a hot day in July, with temperatures averaging 104°F. Our largemouth bass thinks it sees something close to shore and moves to investigate. At the water’s edge, the raven takes a sip of water, when all of a sudden, the largemouth decides to lunge for the raven! The raven, however, being too quick, evades the bass and simply goes about its day. Our bass is shook up and retreats to deeper water, ceding to the raven! 

Result: Raven advances!


Not From ‘Round HereRound 1

Bullfrog vs. European Starling

Location: Little Humboldt River near Paradise Valley

Our bullfrog contender is enjoying a nice day in the Little Humboldt River. The bullfrog has found a good stash of young aquatic bugs to munch on. This bullfrog has been hanging out in this spot for days and the bug population is starting to dwindle. Our starling contender usually isn’t this far away from human civilization, and usually not alone either, but today is different. The starling is perching on a sagebrush plant just up from the small, trickling river. It sees something stirring and decides to investigate and quickly swoops down to a rock on the shore. The starling does not see the bullfrog right away but does see a delicious looking spider in the mud. The bullfrog has also noticed the spider and decides to pursue it. They both start to move towards the spider at the same time. The starling is a little startled to see such a large amphibian, but is determined to grab this spider. Luckily the starling’s small pointy beak is able to pluck the spider from the mud before the large bullfrog is able to get it in position to use its sticky tongue to capture the arachnid.

Result: The starling reigns victorious with its spider prize!

Rock Pigeon vs. Quagga Mussel

Location: Big Bend of the Colorado State Recreation Area

In a parking lot near a boat launch, a group of rock pigeons is looking for handouts or crumbs from any of the visitors coming and going. Our rock pigeon contender is among the group. A boat trailer pulls out of the water and parks. Our contender separates from the group and goes to investigate the boat. There’s tiny flecks on the bottom of the boat that look a little funny to the pigeon. There’s a possibility they’re edible and the rock pigeon wants to find out. The rock pigeon pecks one of the tiny spots which happens to be our quagga mussel contender, and finds it to be hard, but still isn’t sure if its edible. The rock pigeon decides to peck some more. The quagga mussel can’t do anything to defend itself. After several minutes of pecking the pigeon has finally dislodged the mussel from the underbelly of the boat. The mussel falls to the ground and the pigeon picks it up and flies off.

Result: The rock pigeon moves on!

Kokanee Salmon vs. Mediterranean House Gecko

Location: Lake Tahoe State Park

Our kokanee salmon contender is hanging out near the shore in Crystal Bay near Lake Tahoe State Park. The Mediterranean house gecko, our salmon’s opponent, is also near the shore hanging out on a rock. It’s rare for the gecko to be active during the day, but this sunny rock looked like a good place to relax. Both contenders are in places they probably wouldn’t normally be found. The salmon recognizes what it thinks is a small aquatic critter near the surface. It heads towards the rock the movement is coming from. It opens its mouth to intake the critter, but something isn’t quite right. This ‘critter’ is much bigger than it originally thought, and the salmon does not like it and quickly spits it out. Meanwhile, our gecko is sprinting across the beach…without its tail! The gecko’s tail had been dangling in the water and unknowingly enticed the kokanee salmon. Because the gecko lost its tail our salmon moves on!

Result: Kokanee Salmon advances!

Brook Trout vs. Feral Cat

Location: Galena Creek Regional Park

Our feline competitor has made its way away from their previous owner’s house and is exploring Galena Creek for anything tasty. The cat decides to hang out by the creek. Meanwhile our brook trout is in the creek cruising for tasty bugs. The trout catches the eye of the cat. Although, this brook trout is around 7 inches long and a little bigger than what the cat usually goes after, it decides to get into position by crouching close to the edge of the water. The trout is too focused on looking for bugs to notice the cat looking down on it. The cat watches the trout intently for a couple seconds then quickly shoots its paw into the water making contact with the fish and trapping it against the creek bottom and pulling it swiftly to shore. The cat walks away to enjoy its meal.

Result: Feral Cat advances

Here’s what the bracket looks like now! If you got all of them correct you would have 17 points!

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